The Road to ECS - S2:E8: Luise Freese

And hello everyone. And there is no better way to come into the next episode of the Road to ECS than laughing. As you can see on all our faces, we just trying to catch the breath, uh, to get, to get, uh, to get air, uh, back into our lungs. We have a very, very special and dear guest today with us. Uh, I'm coming to her in a second, but, but of course I'm, uh, welcoming, uh, our co-host, uh, Valdek and Mustafa back, back to the show. Yes. And, um, before I let her present herself, I'm going to say a few words. I think I met Luisa on one of first No, I th- I think first time I met her was in Mainz in 2018 in person when she was an attendee, uh, for the European Cooperation Summit when we moved to Germany. And in Mainz she did an awesome, awesome thing. She actually just took her surface and started painting and sketching and drawing what she saw in sessions, and she started tweeting it. At some point of time, th- those things are just popping out on my phone. I was like, "This is awesome." So this is beyond awesome. In the next 12 months, I actually managed to get Luisa a bit more, uh, through one event or another event. We saw each other in Bremen, had a longer, uh, conversation and everything. And as we all know, she's awesome, but it was, it was becoming clear. And then in Bremen I had idea. I was like, about including Luisa actually to be a part of the keynote? So she did that with, uh, Sharon. She did, uh, with, uh, with, uh, Dan. And from that moment on, I think Luisa did not skip a single ECS, um, even in the worst years. In the worst years. We know what this is, uh, about. From then to today, and today she's like basically in workshops, in keynotes, in sessions, in She'll be in the expo I'm sure, because I know that she's everywhere and she's a Luisa, welcome. Thank you so much, Adez. I am happy to be here. And yes, we, we've came a long way and I still remember that. It's almost, it's almost impossible to imagine you as an attendee. I, I cannot Like my I mean, I'm old. My memory doesn't go that back far. Like, like, like you didn't speak. You, you just sat in a room and watched things. Like when was it last time? Um, yeah. It was amazing. So, so I, I did. And in fact, I very much enjoy attending conferences nowadays. So I intentionally do this from time to time. So not speaking, I'm not trying to just like bring demos just like 30 minutes before a session. I do not need to be anywhere. I can just like come join and listen and learn and be there for the sessions and the hacks and the smiles as well, and all the selfies. But, um, I find this attitude of lots of speakers, "Yeah, if I'm not speaking, I'm not going," I find this quite disturbing, to be honest. So, um, yes, I like to be an attendee as well, as much as I like to be a speaker. mean, if, if there is, if there's one thing that strikes me about you, right? And like over the course of years, I think it's just like reinforcing that you never stop learning, right? So the mentality, like And you're never, you know, afraid of like, nothing is either above or be- beyond you. Like, like y- originally, way back when, you didn't code and then like, yeah, I'm gonna code, I'm gonna build an app, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. So like, I think over the course of years you tried, you touched everything. Yeah. Like at least that's the way it comes a- across. So like, like, you know, in Microsoft, like we talked a lot about the, uh, know-it-all versus the lea- learn-it-all. To me you are the learn-it-all. You learn it all or you, you experimented with it all. But sorry about it, but who of us can assume that we know it all? We learn all day. It's, uh It is completely astonishing what, uh, Luisa did. I, I, I- Well, I mean, you know, there is the reasonable, the reasonable part versus the Yeah. What we say we do versus what we actually do. And we know that there are some folks like, "Nah, an expert. Look at me." Yeah. Those are the one that Those, those are those that I'm mostly afraid of. Uh, but another So there are only a few things where I really am an expert about, because I believe you can't be an expert in everything because that would make you just like a non-expert in anything. Um, but if I'm not an expert in something and still wanna talk about it, I talk about how I learned that thing and what helps me grow in that thing so that others just like can relate to that and maybe it's easier for them as well. So I don't need to know it all. I'm just like adaptive and change, and I eat knowledge, so I For breakfast and lunch. So how But like, so how, how does your brain tick? How do you do that in other words? How do you, you know, create room for the, um, for, for being uncomfortable? Because like, that's basically the way you feel when you learn something new. You make yourself uncomfortable because then you kind of go, you know, through the trough of d- despair where, you know, you start like, "Oh, that's so cool." And then you try something, you're like, "Oh my God, this is the hardest thing ever," and everything sucks. And the more you know, the more you realize you don't know. And it's just like, mm. how do you approach that? Any tips for, uh, the listeners?Well, I, I guess with a little bit of bravery because I'm No, it's just like, n- no, for real. It's just like be brave enough to suck at something new. It is just like, so if I'm always just, like, stay where I'm just, like, super comfortable and I know everything and I can tell everyone, I'm just like, "You talk like shit," and I know everything, that is, that is boring. So the excitement comes from uncertainty and risk and a little bit of bravery and yeah, I'm not at risk at all 'cause I'm just, like, sitting very comfortable just, like, in my home behind my chair so there's no real, real exposure to risk. But yeah, I, I like to feel uncomfortable a little bit at least. So there is no real danger in that. This is, uh, but, um, let's make a step back. This is, uh I, I, I realized why this intro took so much of time because, um, each time I meet Luise, and that's unfortunately way too seldom. Uh, but we did manage to get some quality time in Salzburg last year, right? Yes. This is, and this is always refreshing because, uh, unfortunately, every, all of us have, like, 20 things to attend to and, uh, 20 things to do. But at least once a year, and I think Salzburg could be one of those things that we could actually, we can actually sit and talk about because when I'm in, uh, Dusseldorf-K- Cologne I am, I'm out. I mean, I'm there, but I'm not there. Uh, you- Yeah y- you, you know how, uh, how those things are. I know. I know. So, um, I, I, I'm not, I'm not really, uh, mentally present except for doing all the, "This stuff needs to be done next." But, um, how was Dusseldorf for you the last year? Especially because for a lot of people don't know, it's your home city. Yeah. So, um, I was born and raised and just, like, I live in Dusseldorf and I love the city for a vari- variety of reasons. Um, so what, what I loved about it is how people came together just, like, from all over Europe and even further and, um, for me especially, it is just, like, super, super easy because I can literally walk home from the venue. So that's just like And my running course is just, like, the park next to the venue, so, um, that is very, very nice obviously. But just, like, having so many friends from all over the world in my city, that was just, like, kind of special. Although I had nothing to do with or- the organization of the event, so I was, um, just a speaker and I know it is also about the speakers, but I was just, like, so, so in awe just, like, how many people came and then of course made memories not only at the venue but just, like, also around it and strolled in the city and, um, did things and even my kids said, "Yeah, there were just, like, people who wore T-shirts like you usually do." That's very sweet. I suppose, Luise. But I, I would just like to tackle this just a speaker. I, I think, I hope we try, at least that's our kind of North Star, is there's nobody is just a speaker. Nobody is just an attendee. Obviously, few of us are deep into, into the day-to-day doing, uh, all those things. But for example, one of the best things that happened to me personally now in Dusseldorf was, uh, that a good buddy of mine, uh, who is a long time Microsoft veteran who, uh, retired Microsoft Germany, Rainer, who is SharePoint legend in Germany, um, who wasn't even speaker last year. Uh, years before that he was. Usually, usually he would be speaking with Kimo or with Neil Hodgkinson or like all the, the, the SharePoint legends party, uh, of, of Side as you know. And Rainer came to me like, "You know, I'm retired now. I will be at every next conference you guys organize, uh, because I just love the people, love the community, love the vibe, love everything. If I can help you with anything with this conference, I'm not doing I'm not asking for any kind of, um, re- uh, reward. You know where to find me, I will be happy to do I will be happy to do I'm just- I stood there looking at somebody whom we honestly and seriously can be calling SharePoint legend, saying how comfortable he feels, how much that means to him, and now that he's retired, he wants to help. That was one of the my That was my of one of my highlights from, from the last year. I don't know how do you guy But this is When you say, "I was just a speaker," you were never just a speaker. Each time I came to Expo, I saw you there, Luise, talking to people, talking to dozens of people. So you were on the panels, you were, you were It's There isn't just a speaker. I, I, I just wouldn't go for that, i- if you know what I mean. I do, in fact. So everyone is helpful, everyone is super supportive, and everyone pays it forward. So no one expects anything in return. And although I believe most of us believe in some kind of karma, that if you do good things, then good things will come back to you, just like, but not in a- Mm super transactional way. Just like, I do something good for you, and then you owe me something, but just like more in the generous scheme of things. But I love how everyone takes care of each other, and there is just like no competition or controversy or anything else, but just like we, we just like all stick together and I love that. Yeah. I- But that's the whole point of the community, right? That's, that's the whole- Everyone being together and supporting for each other. Back in the time there was a, there was a SharePoint IRC back who, who, who used to organize competition of SharePoint influencers. God, that w- that was the things I hated most about that. And Valdek knows. This is Valdek, can we go back, uh, all the way back- I was an influencer- You won then a few years ago. Also, also you nominated each other year after year. We all know how you won. We made you win which is perfect. We are very proud of you. I appreciate that nonetheless. But I was, I was It was 10, 12 years ago. I, I, I'll in the process I learned how to shut up sometimes. Uh, in that, uh, those years I was not shut, shutting up all the time. I was really very vocal like I was like in certain 'cause I, I don't think we need a competition. This is not a league. This is a community, which is, this is, this which is important for me. Talking about caring about, um As I said, I know Luise. I dare to call her my friend, somebody who I like and respect a lot, but I also follow what you write in LinkedIn because I'm not on Twitter anymore. I don't know if you are, but I know that I, I'm, I'm not, I'm not spending my time on that anymore. Uh, but on LinkedIn- But Twitter doesn't exist anymore, and therefore I do not use Twitter anymore. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Perfe- perfectly legitimate. Um- Yeah and for that little time I managed to spend on LinkedIn, I very often come, uh, to your posts and, uh, sometimes I even find myself stupid if I just answer, "Yes, I fully agree." Uh, so, so I just sometimes don't do it even if I, most of the time very much fully agree with what you, uh, said. Uh, and this is not always only about work. This is not always only about community. Uh, this is sometimes about just people, about society, about caring and, uh, there is a lot of much caring you show around yourself, uh, both in the professional and in private, obviously, um, environment. Can you tell us a little bit about Luise when she's not on the stage? Ooh. Um, Luise- Ooh not on stage. Um, okay. Um, where shall I begin? So, um, I think- Wherever you want mo- most importantly, I'm just like very much a human being who has their flaws and their insecurities just like as everyone else. And even though I'm just like super confident in my sessions, trust me, there is a little bit of fright before I go on stage and a little bit of, "Oh my God, will I make that? And will I just like catch the audience here as well?" Um, furthermore, I am a mother of 2 teenage dragons. So d- daughters, but also dragons. Um, yeah. It is, it is pretty much, uh, the same, uh, believe me. Um, I try to raise them as strong and caring and empathetic and very smart women. And I'm just like very happy that they grew as much as they did, and that they care as much about other people and our environment and society as a whole as I do. Um, I'm an avid believer in doing good and talking about it. So I volunteer at the soup kitchen, um, here in my, um, home city and also I volunteer, um, at a hospice, so I, uh, take care of people who are dying. Um, and that is one of the most-It is a thing that makes me very grateful that I'm able to do this, and it gives so much back, and it helps people along the way as well in their hardest times. What I do is, um, I love to, I love to bake. I love to eat healthy. I spend a lot of time in the kitchen making my own bread, making my own granola, making my own ginger shots, making everything just, like, from scratch. So I don't like to eat ultra-processed food, and I realize it's just, like, easier to make this than to find that in the store. Um, I love to be in nature. I love to go running and hiking and just, like, strolling through the city because, yes, I do not live on the countryside, but just, like, in the city. And I love to, um, perceive art, so I spend a lot of time in museums. That's- Yeah, that is, um That is- Your, your day has significantly more hours than mine does. Oh, he's just complaining. He's just complaining again. That's- No, I'm just saying, her I don't know how she manages that. Her day must have more hours than mine does because, like, that, that's You keep yourself very, very busy. But then again, also on professional side, I know you and I have seen you, uh, moving from sh- not moving away, but moving along or moving to from SharePoint space to Power Platform, uh, space, to, um, you Obviously, I mean, it's a nat- it's a natural, uh, f- following, um, then you need to deal with the Azure stuff, and I see you, uh, doing the Azure stuff or being Azure stuff. Uh, obviously we are living in the dawn of the a- age of AI, because I just think it's a dawn. I mean, things are coming, uh, uh, on the way. and as Valdek hinted in the very beginning, uh, the space is moving, but you are somehow moving even faster than the space, uh, moving, moving there. Um, what is, in a professional, on a professional, uh, level now, what is it that you are mostly doing, uh, today? Is it still, uh, Power Platform? Is it now more trusted advisory consulting on other side? Is it tech work on the infrastructure Azure side? What is what Is it a dev work, standard dev? So what is that what you do- Yeah, so- kind of the most of Yeah, so mostly my work is at the intersection of Azure and Power Platform, which is, like, a very, very sprinkle of M365 still in the mix. It's like, "Yeah, and can you now make it available in Teams?" But that, that is about it. which, which is still fine, and I, I, I love that to know how it works, but just, like, mostly it is in Azure and Power Platform. Um, I'm mostly in an architect/trusted advisor role, and occasionally they ask me to implement the super, super tricky parts. Mm-hmm. Um, but most of the time I'm not in the lead for developing the applications. Okay. That's, that's- The hands-on work is usually done, uh, by an on-site team, and I'm just, like, supervising them or guiding them. Um, you said imagine a, a You said the mother of 2 dragons. Believe me, I'm also a father of 2 dragons. It's just a boy and gi- girl and girl, uh, which means a g- a boy and girl. But I do share the, uh, passion for, uh, dra- dragon training. Even if training is a wrong word. It's basically dragon encouraging, uh, to go in the, in the right di- You can't tame a dragon. Yeah. No, you cannot tame a dragon. Um, but it is, um, really it's, uh And I had a conversation actually last weekend with a very dear friend also about raising the daughters, about, uh, being independent and everything and the, the stuff you say. Mm, we have witnessed, and I always painfully see how this, um, went down south, uh, in the past decades. We have witnessed the number of womans, women and girls in the IT and tech space decreasing heavily for the past 50 years. Right. And when I mean heavily, I mean heavily. I invite everyone to at least once go to the Museum of National Computing in Bletchley Park, where the, uh, call up days, uh, Bletchley Park happened, that our dear community friends, uh, in, in, uh, England organized. That we see a space that was actually dominated by women up until end of '70s, I would even dare to say, th- that being completely drained out, uh, in, in that, uh, part of the, of the, um, uh, i- in the coming years. Now, this must come over as, uh, strange because you are talking to the 3 middle a- uh, middle-aged white, uh, guys here, but both ECS and Run Events are women-led companies. Uh, CEO of Run Events is Margit. Uh, for the ECS, most of s- m- most of the part in the background, uh, are going to, uh, women, uh, who are rarely on those calls because they don't like cameras, uh, too much. It's Elena, it's Imela, uh, especially El- Elena, uh, there's a lot of staff. Uh, our head of sales is, is Zoe. Of course, Margit is also doing operations, uh, and stuff. And, um, we are trying in our micro cosmoses, our, our micro universities to have, uh, this. We are also trying with our speakers to do this. Sometimes we are doing better, sometimes we, we are doing worse or not so good. We also see a huge differences among our 3 conferences. Uh, and when I say huge differences, I mean, like, huge differences. Where, uh, call up and Biz Apps are doing well, better. I mean, I w- I would, I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say ideally, but I would say we don't suck in that regard. We see huge issues with Azure and, uh, cloud and AI space, which we are now We are moving things now to, uh, make those things happen, but it is more difficult. Um, and, uh, I know that's a topic which is also very dear to your heart. How is that from your perspective? Because you are not working for a huge consultancy where you would be some, uh, principal seniors c- Mm senior consultant where you would come with, I don't know, like a background of, uh, whatever. You are Luise. You are coming as an M365 princess to a customer. You are for yourself. And I can imagine that this is even more visible to you than maybe for the other women in tech who are part of the larger organizations. Yeah. So, um, usually I am the only one who is a woman in the room. Um, usually, um, may- maybe there is one other woman in the room, uh, when talking to a customer. Usually she's not in the engineering team. Usually she is there to just, like, organize the coffee, which is, um, good as well for those who drink coffee. But, um, I see the very same picture. And regarding conferences, so it is good, of course, that you have lots of women helping you to craft amazing conferences. Um, and of course they will advocate for other women. But more importantly, you need to get the guys to advocate- Mm-hmm Mm-hmm. That is the most important And to get more women in IT, we need to remove all the toxic guys from IT. And that is obviously true for every single industry that is, uh, male-dominated. But, um, if we tolerate harassment and jokes who aren't funny- Yes then obviously, uh, women won't feel invited and will- Yeah will continue to leave the industry. And to be honest, we can't afford to lose all of that talent. So, um- My God, no for me in my personal life, and as you said, I am I'm not a huge company. I'm just like, um, I'm independent, I'm just me. But obviously sometimes I need to subcontract something- Mm-hmm or I need to call a plumber for my home or anything else. And whatever I hire, I exclusively hire women. Mm-hmm. And why is that? Because if a woman reaches the same level of recognition as a man, she needed to work twice as hard to reach that level of recognition, and therefore likelihood that she will be better than the average guy that would just, like, find firsthand because he gets the exposure just, like, delivered, just like as his birthright, that would be pretty high. So, um- Yeah and maybe that is something that we can all learn from conferences as well. Just like when in doubt, pick the woman. The worst, the worst part of, uh, what you just said is that you are right.I know Yeah I thought about that. So I never talk about things that I do not know. I know. But hey, I don't know this, let's learn this together. I Um, and, um, the, the, they are I mean, we had situation in our day job company in Run Events that, uh, in the dev tech team we can- we were pretty much half-half. And then what happened, uh, is that, um, some point of time due to the, um, maternity leaves and stuff, we stayed with only one woman developer in the team versus 6, 7, 8 men. Uh, that didn't last, uh, for too long. And then due to the transformations in our company, uh, which usually mean Adi doesn't need to t- uh, do everything, uh, our new CPO is a woman, a very dear colleague, uh, that I know for And I, I have worked, uh, for, with, uh, 24 year- 20 plus years now. And, uh, Anissa, our developer, was like, "Thank you so much for, um, hiring Vanya. You guys are all awesome. You guys are all great. We don't make stupid jokes. We don't make, um, funny jokes. We are actually really nice." She was like, "But it still sucked to be the only woman in the team." And it is, it is a fair sentence. It is a sentence that I also need to take. Okay, this change now because our 2, uh, our 2 other, uh, colleagues, uh, are coming back now from the maternity and everything, so we'll pretty much be balanced again. But that one year where Anissa was actually, Mustafa, the only, only woman, uh, in our dev tech team, even if we are nice, even if we are re- at least we think of ourselves, uh, to be very supportive, uh, and to be, uh, friends, it is strange somehow. It's- Yeah. I don't know. So there are ways of changing- So obviously- Yeah so if there is no representation, if you're always just, like, the only one, um, in a group, that does not feel good even if the group is nice to you. You will just- Yeah like, always feel like as, as the outlier. Um- Yeah and that can be about gender, that can be about race, that can be about your skill and caliber or anything else. So if you're just, like, the only one of a group, you will feel like, oh my God, that one is the strange one. That one does not belong. Mm-hmm. And therefore, it is very important to just, like, have a good mixture of people, just like in every single regards. And I know that your conference does, or your conferences, uh, do a very, very good job in, uh, ensuring that we do not always see the very same people with the very same stories and who all look like the same on stage. Uh, but just to share an example, um, I just returned from a, um, conference in, uh, Sweden that was- Mm-hmm a, um, dot-NET focused developer conference. So that was just like really hardcore dev. And they had 41 speakers, 19 of which were women. really good. So that is- That's good almost 50%. That's good. That's, that's really, that's really good. And, and there was no filler sessions or no, yeah, she's only here because, you know, we need to- No bring in a woman, so there was no tokenization or anything like that. That was just like rock hard, solid, very, very good session. No. A lot of them. We, we, we are, we are also, we are also not doing that. What we try always is really to have, um, women on the content teams. It's very important for us. Uh- Yeah and I think our, uh, ladies are doing, uh And we, uh, we have Martina, we have Barbara, we have Claire, we have Sandy. I mean, I think they're doing also awesome work with, uh- Mm uh, with all of that, and I love all 4 of them. They're, they're, they're, they're just awesome. Um, but And I see us moving also in the AI Azure cloud space. I see us doing better than the last year. But this is still Uh, but I still know this is the field where we need to work on. The, uh, where much more work has to happen than in collab and biz op space. We need to go keep working collab and biz op space too, because we don't want to rebound back, uh, because this was, this would also not be a ideal situation. But hey, it is what it is. Yeah. I, I think I had W- you mentioned, uh, uh, in, in the introduction- Mm-hmm a conversation with, uh, a LinkedIn conversations with Elizabeth her statuses. And I think I commented one of those exactly on this topic that the state community depends, and, and some are, are more, more open to diversity and, and, and including everyone and, uh, and, and so on. I think from Micro 365 side and, and Power Platform, which kind of is very connected to that one. A lot of people are, are involved- In both, in both communities. That's true and then we open the Azure side of the community we, and included that side of content, uh, on ECS as well. It was a big struggle because in the community, in general, there are only a few w- women, uh, involved and, and- Yeah, but the, well, we see, we can see that question it's not from all community. It's up, up to entire community to work on that. It's everyone's responsibility. We cannot say just, "It is what it is." We need to, to, to try to do as much as possible and, and not make it a, a, a, a boys club anymore. Anyway, moving towards kind of the last part of, uh, what we are talking is, um, ECS 2026. Um, 200 plus sessions. Everybody can find something for them if they're coming from Microsoft space. Uh, panels, expo villages, you know, it's We will again try to make it fun. We will again try to make it welcoming. Um, we really w- want to peop- wanted people to feel welcome there. Uh, but there's one thing. It's in Cologne, and I know what people from Dusseldorf think of Cologne, and that's not good, I know. Oh, w- w- well, um, so you, you, you, you might be mistaken because, so yes, there is this narrative that people from Cologne and Dusseldorf do not like each other. But there, the root of that narratives stems from just, like, 2 generations ago. So we're all literally too young to, um, so we are too young, can you imagine that, to, um- Yes engage in that furthermore because, um So if people are interested, so, um, after World War II, um, North Rhine-Westphalia, so which is the state where both cities are in, needed a new capital because all the states have capitals in Germany. And, um, it would have needed to be Cologne because it is the oldest city, and it is big and so everything. But unfortunately, due to the bombs, it is was totally destroyed, and it had no infrastructure to serve as the capital for North Rhine-Westphalia. And therefore, this tiny, tiny little city, Dusseldorf, became the capital. And that brought money and a lot of commerce and just like, yeah, richness to, uh, Dusseldorf, and Cologne people dislike that. But you know I like to, uh, to play with prejudices. Uh, th- and this is actually a true story- Yeah uh, because I have seen photos of Cologne, uh, after World War II. Basically the, the cathedral was the only thing that, uh, remained, uh- Yeah, yeah pretty much around. E- everything else was just- It's a beautiful cathedral and for everyone- Yes uh, visiting, um, Cologne for the conference. So please take 2 hours, so when you arrive by train- Do we- just like Do we know where the part- where the conference part is gonna be? We still didn't announce it. Mustafa, are we doing the announcement now? Let's do announcement. Let's do announcement. We are doing announcement. Drum roll. Just across the cathedral, Wartesaal. Ooh. Legendary venue. Ooh, nice. So, uh- 10 meters from cathedral. 10 meters from cathedral. Yes. So- If we were closer to the cathedral, we would be inside the cathedral. 3 bands. 3 bands. And I'm doing I'm totally doing now a announcement, so doesn't matter. The first band is going to play only one song. It's ECS band. Was it a good ah or a bad ah? You can see the guitars in the background. And it's only one song. So why is it just one song? Look, look, look. Look, look, look. The reason we didn't do it until now, we were lacking a key player, keys player, and we were lacking the drummer. Now, we have Thomas on the keys, who is really good. Oh. And we, we got Matt on the drums. Matt Bytan from, from Lighting Tools. Mm-hmm. And we have Margit on cello. Um, Mustafa on bass, me on guitar. This is going to be fun. The, the vocals? Anto, the guy who is, uh, organizing- Really? in the background. Yeah. He, Anto, in his night- Anto actually has a metal band, so he- Anto in the night- night- in his nighttime, Anto's got a, the death metal band, and a really good one. The things I learn. There you go. It's never- I did not know that. And I actually w- w- Usually we read the name and the link to music streaming service for the first time in person, uh, on the concert of his band. So there is that. And then we have been in Cologne, uh, visiting the venue. We went, since I do have a thing for jazz. I know I'm weird, so this one of the things, weird things I do is I love jazz. We have been- Which type? Which type? Pretty much everything. Pretty much everything. Give me even free jazz, I, I will be fine with it. Maybe not for 24 hours a day, but I will do that. Uh, we have been to Papa Joe's-Which is kind of if you love jazz, you need to I mean, that's place in, in Cologne. And, uh, there were, there was a band, there was a trio on the stage. 3 of them calculated number, cumulative number of years of age, I would say around 250. I am not over-exaggerating. They were all over- Basically 2 people and, and you, right? They were, they were, they were all over 80. They were awesome. The level of awesomeness is you couldn't even measure the level of awesomeness. So be- That doesn't really say anything except maybe- No for experience, but even then. Of course, of course. That's exactly. So you need, you need to imagine this, uh, Valdi. So there's a trio, they didn't have a, they didn't have a bass player. So what the, what the keys player did, he played bass with the pedals. Of course. To the level that you wouldn't notice that there is no bass. In some point of time he just started making it artistic, putting one of the pe- his foot on the keys and playing with the right f- right foot bass and with the left foot, uh, keys. I wonder if that person in their free time doesn't play like the, uh, what's it, what's the name for it? The church keys, you know, like they're the big, big thing- Organ where like, yeah, there's like 5 keyboards and you also play with your feet and there's like things to pull on, and you're like, "Holy." Like that's next level. Immediately, very, that very night we invited them to, uh, to the party. They decided to, uh, that they would come. And then we have got our, um, opera house band, our, our, our house band with, uh, with awesome Jenny and, uh, Nixon on the vocals and, uh, saxophone, uh, as the main attraction. So Warta Saal, Cologne, this is going to be awesome, people. If there's one thing you don't wanna miss, it's that thing. Well, I would hope that you, you know- Yeah I, I ha- I had this, I had this, uh, this issue with Lee when we are talking about, uh, the whole conference. How, what did you like, uh, on the conference? And now Lee is my friend and, uh, everybody- Lee computer intelligence is big words. Computer in- He- We didn't mention computer intelligence. Okay. Here's the- Computer intelligence. I asked him, "What did you like the most about, uh, ECS1025?" He was, "Oh, dude, the registration process. It was so easy. You come with your badge and you go- with your QR code and you ge- you get badge in the 10 seconds." Okay. Lee, out of the whole conference you tell me that you like the registration process. "No, no, no everything else was good as well." But- No, but like it only, it only shows like you- 3 things you like the, the bar is so high. Like everything, you know, like good talks, ta- table stakes. You know, talks, expo, table stakes. Like- Yeah organizing an event with bad, you know, content, please do it is like, seriously, like are you even organizing an event where that thing, those things are bad? I think it's, it's, it's in a way, maybe in a awkward way, a compliment. Like that's the- I know solid, of course. Like, you know, great speakers- I, I- great people, great everything. That thing. Like if you get to the level that you can optimize things like check-in because everything else is good, I think that only proves like how far you've c- you've come. But Valdi, you know that I just love to troll Lee because he's my- Of course. I, I can do that. He's my friend. It's very Really. We love Lee. Everybody loves Lee. And, uh, yes, there's going to be party and, um, in Warta Saal, and I think Mustafa and me have been there, what, 3, 4 weeks ago. And it really- Okay I mean, the venue checks, the party checks, uh, there'll be 3 bands including us, so please don't, uh, throw any kind of tomatoes or whatever, or eggs, boiled eggs or whatever on us. We will suck, but it will be only for one song, we promise. Uh- Okay. Uh, yeah. I want you to throw tomatoes. This was, this was, this was drink and dance. Drink, drink stuff. This time- Well don't throw the tomatoes. Bring throwables. Oh, and one thing I just want to circle back because I, uh, noted, uh, to myself, uh, when you said we are not, uh, we are not God-given to be on the stage, and we really are not. uh, we are not God-given to be on the stage, and we really are not. And, um, we started, um, one thing that it came to me from 2 different sides during the, the, the, during the Cologne, um, uh, during the Dusseldorf event. I was approached by Kimo and by Paolo, uh, who are both in Microsoft now. Uh, Kimo was in Microsoft. My, uh, Paolo is now in the meantime also. And he's like, "We need young people. We need much more young people." So we started a program of, um, coaching/mentoring, so really young people to bring them to the stage in Cologne, and we have inv- uh, we have separate call for content for them. Some f- uh, quite some of them applied. I was hoping for a bit more, but so, so we have a, we have, uh, selected 3. We have a young boy from Bosnia who is 17, who has all possible Microsoft certificates, which is like how old, how old is this? Which is awesome. Oh, but I would say that that is a young man, not a young boy. 17, like dude. Yeah, okay. But you know what I mean. I mean, um- Yeah. Testament to the experience. Yes. And, uh, and, uh, 2 more people, uh, which, which we are going to send. We have really, we have Lee, we have Kimo, and we have, uh, Thomas, I think. 3 of them are, uh, 3 of them are coaching and mentoring them and, uh, this, this is really And Ahmad. Ahmad. And Ahmad, uh, will be coaching, mentoring them, uh, I feel as well. But I will also, uh, circling back what Louise has said, if I'm not speaking, I'm not going to be there. I remember one of the call up days Belgium's event and Thomas when he was running it called me like, "Sorry you didn't get session this year." I was like, "Can I attend?" He was, "Of course, of course. You are always welcome. I just want to call you for a session." Like, you never need to explain to me why I didn't get a session. Never, ever. That's normal thing ever. I mean, and we are talking to Thomas, who is one of my closest friends in life. I mean, so it's, you know. Anyway, uh, this, this really, I think, was an important message, Louise, what you said, which I did not want to, uh, somehow drown, uh, in, in, in, in, uh, all of this. Should we do nice thank you rounds for this? We are already over the time, but we don't care. We just- Time flies in good company, so. We will leave, we will leave to Anton not to cut out anything. Right, Anton? He's in the backgr- he's smiling in the background. All good. You know, you can always choose to play this show on one and a half point speed, so. Nah. That's, that's only for too young people. I am not, I'm not doing that kind of I somehow feel that to be unrespectful. I don't know. Okay. I don't know. Do you think they know? Do you think they know when you play their show with- I somehow feel they might know. It conveys. Of course they don't know. I mean, how could they know? Let's just eat. Let's just eat. You meet them next time, time in real life and you're like, "I thought you spoke faster." Why are you talking slower? I'm processing faster. Come on. And this is why I love those people. This is exactly why I love those Louise, I see you latest in May. I don't think we will cross paths before, uh, but latest in May. At least for a short hug, uh, because craziness. Yeah. But I just got email, I just got email from our dear friend Toby the time accepted for the Infinity, so probably we'll have some quality time in Austria again, uh, talking and, uh, talking and Uh, Infinity is a really nice Let, let us make a also commercial for our, for our friends. Um, a small, nice, very cozy Microsoft 365 event in Salzburg in Austria, German-speaking. So if you are- If you are available this, this is very much, this is very much, uh, a recommended thingy. Um, see you in May. See you. And see you in June then after that. Lovely. Valdek, Mustafa, my friends. We will be back. They will be, will be back. Who can do the voice? Who can do the voice? I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. The worst is over. Thank you everyone for listening. Thank you everyone for watching and, um, until the next time. See you, folks. Thank you. See you. Thank you, Lisa.